dani
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Posts: 48
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Post by dani on Feb 18, 2012 22:20:53 GMT -5
I have always fed Strategy pellets with free choice coastal. That was what Barney was eating when we got him and it seemed okay. Now somebody told me today that it causes colic in older horses. Has anybody else ever heard this?
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Post by MaryS on Feb 18, 2012 23:34:24 GMT -5
I haven't heard it, and I'm not sure why it would be true either. I'd have to be explained how it would do that.
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Post by ghostrider on Feb 19, 2012 0:44:14 GMT -5
Equine Nutrition
Feeding your horse is one of the most important aspects of equine care. Food is the simplest element for growth, performance, breeding, and appearance and is easy to control. This is my personal philosophy and understanding of common feeds; equine nutrition is very controversial and highly preferential. I must also point out that hays and brands will differ throughout the country, and that my horses are on "dry lot", that is, they do not have access to fresh pasture. Miniature horses eat the exact same things a regular horse eats, just in smaller amounts. Each and every horse will eat more or less depending on their work, breeding status, age, metabolism, and current condition. Feeding programs are highly individual for each horse, and my horses each get a different amount of feed. If you want to make any changes to your horse's feed, it is best to do so over a two-week period, and very gradual. You do not want to induce colic, even if the change in diet will be for the better. Here is my understanding of equine nutrition for the California horse on dry lot:
Hay: Hay is the most important element of a horse's feeding program. Horses are natural foragers, and they are designed to eat poor quality food all day long. Now, since we domesticated them, we have far removed them from their natural state. We feed them high quality food less often. This is cheaper and easier for us, and we tend to psychologically feel better because we are giving them a high quality diet. A horse should be fed no less than once per day; if it is possible to split feedings into even more, that is highly desirable. The ability to have food constantly available is best for the horse's mental state, as well as prevention of colic, ulcers, and other physical maladies. Also be sure to get the best quality hay you can find; make sure it is free of dust and mold primarily, as well as free of debris, dirt, and weeds.
Hay should make up the bulk of a horse's diet. It is usually suggested that for the average horse under light work, that the horse's grain ration (concentrate) does not exceed 10% of their diet. It is also suggested that a horse gets one pound of hay for every 100 pounds a horse weighs. Therefore, a miniature horse weighing 200-300 pounds will require about 2-3 pounds of hay per day. You will need a weight tape to determine how much your miniature horse eats. If your horse is working, breeding, or a "hard keeper" you will need to increase his hay and possibly his grain. If your horse needs to go on a "diet" due to obesity, the best answer is not usually to cut back on hay. Hay is important for the digestive system, and in a case of "dieting" the answer will be to cut back on concentrates (grain) and to increase the horse's work, NOT on cutting back on hay.
There are many types of hay available in California... but not all types of hay is grown locally. Other parts of the country have access to other types of hay such as "coastal" hay. The ideal protein level for idle mature horses is 12% protein. Up to 14% protein may be necessary for growing stock. You also must watch the calcium and phosphorus balances in your horses' diets. There are supplements available that will add the lacking balance in a straight-hay diet. I believe in mixing hays to get a good variety for the horse to pick through and keep busy as well as to balance the nutrition levels. Your vet will best be able to determine what the best type of hay for your horse is, in what amounts.
The most common type of hay in California seems to be alfalfa hay. Unlike other hays, alfalfa is a legume, and is very "wet", very rich hay. Because of California's climate and being a dairy state (dairy cows are fed rich alfalfa), alfalfa is grown in large quantities and this thus very inexpensive. Alfalfa is a good hay for horses because very small amounts of it can be fed and give a vitamin punch, but it is not an ideal horse feed. It is very high in calcium, and this can cause growth problems in young horses. Alfalfa tends to be a bit of a laxative, so carefully monitor a horse that is not used to eating it if you introduce it to their diets. It is also common that this high amount of mineral in alfalfa combined with our high mineral content in our water causes entroliths, which are stones in the gut, to form. Alfalfa also tends to be very high in protein, from 12% on up. I like feeding alfalfa, but recommend cutting the high protein and calcium with a less-rich hay such as oat hay or a grass hay.
Oat hay is a good low-protein feed and although many do not like it due to wastage (horses occasionally refuse to eat the straw-like stems) I like it just for that virtue alone. It is a good "busy food", and instead of eating it quickly and then being hungry and bored, a horse will pick through the oat hay to find all the leaves and oats, and eventually pick the best of the stems to eat. I like adding this hay to an alfalfa diet for that reason. A very similar hay to oat hay is Barley hay, but is less frequently available.
Grass hays are also good hays to feed to complement alfalfa. Timothy hay is the most expensive hay in California, but it has the lowest amount of protein available. Timothy is an excellent choice for a horse with a growth problem, or for a slow-maturing breed such as a warmblood. It can also be fed free-choice with great success, but the price is prohibitive. Another type of grass hay is Orchard grass. It is just a little higher than protein than timothy hay. One of the more common and least-expensive grass hays in California is Bermuda grass. This fine-stemmed grass hay is a good hay for it's constipating abilities, and this can often counter the laxative effects of alfalfa. Because it is constipating, it is not recommended that you feed this hay all by itself. In rare cases it can ball up in the stomach and cause colic. Some people report that their horses refuse to eat some types of oat or grass hays, but do not give up hope! If the horse is hungry, they will learn to eat it! Just do not offer more hay (or very little additional hay) until the horse has eaten what has been given to him.
Grain: Hay can often be balanced with grain for the horse who is working or breeding. The average pet or companion does not need grain as long as they have a good quality hay available. It is recommended that grain does not exceed 10% of the average horse's diet, but higher percentages can be found in demanding performance or breeding horses. There are natural whole grains as well as processed, pelleted grains available. There are really too many to mention, but here are some of my favorites...
Oats. Whole oats can be bought in large quantities and in various forms of milling. They can be bought whole, crimped, or rolled. I prefer the crimped or rolled oats, because the mill has broken the hard hull of the grain and makes it easier for the horse to digest. Contrary to the old phrase "feeling his oats"... oats is not a particularly "hot" feed and can be fed in large amounts because of the high fiber content and difficulty in digestion. It is a very safe grain with not too much danger of overfeeding or founder.
Barley and corn. These grains are also available as straight grains like the oats, but pay heed that corn is one of the most powerful of the grains. A handful of corn has far more available energy than a similar handful of oats. When oats, barley, corn, and a processed grain pellet are milled together with a bit of molasses, it is called "4 Way" or "Sweetfeed". This is a very inexpensive and popular whole-grain choice that horses love. If you want to feed sweetfeed without risking making your horse "hot" from the corn, you can get what my feed store calls "Oat Base"... it is sweetfeed without the corn.
Beet pulp. Beet pulp is a strange feed that is gaining in popularity. It is available in both a shredded form, and as a pelleted form... with or without molasses added for palatability. Beet pulp is an ugly grey fiber that is the by-product from sugar beets after the sugar has been extracted. What's left is the pulp, which is high in sugar, calcium, and fiber, as well as a handful of protein thrown in. Because it expands in water, it is highly recommended that beet pulp is soaked in water. It takes some experimentation to find a good "recipe" for the water-to-beet-pulp ratio. Simply put a measured amount of beet pulp in a bucket of water, and wait at least eight hours for it to expand. If there is too much water left over, drain it from the bucket. If the beet pulp is still hard and pelleted, add more water. Usually I find a one part beet pulp to three or four parts water is sufficient. Be careful on warm days, as the high sugar content can ferment the beet pulp. I have heard conflicting opinions on beet pulp... some people claim it puts weight on their horses. Other people claim that it is a good "filler" feed to make fat horses think they are getting some grain. I think it is a little of both... it is a strange creature indeed. I find it's best value as a "binder"... it's dampness allows medications and supplements to stick to it and be easily eaten. Horses will initially turn up their nose at this strange feed, but if you mix it with their regular grain and are patient, you will find your horses grow to LOVE it!
Processed grains. There are pretty much a million brands and types of processed grains. They each have their own values, and are made for certain disciplines. I will give you an overview of what I use, but explore others! ....
Equine Junior/Equine Senior. These processed, extruded grains are cooked and easily digestible. They are my favorite for young (horses under two years) and old (horses over 10 years). I do not feed them as a complete feed like the manufacturer suggests, but as a supplementary grain (one pound of complete feed can replace 2-3 pounds of hay).
Purina Strategy: I heard a lot of people claiming they love this grain, so I had to try it. I found that this grain makes most horses VERY HOT due to the high corn content. It gives the horses a lot of energy, and helps them convert fat to muscle. This grain will give a "kick" to your show and performance horses! It is not a complete feed, it is a concentrate and thus is given in addition to the horses' normal hay rations.
Triple Crown Complete: One of my favorite grains to feed. This highly palatable feed consists of beet pulp, rice bran, grains, alfalfa meal, and vitamins and can be fed alone with no hay. I feed it as 50% of my horses' daily rations.
Supplements: In most cases, supplements are not needed in a high-quality feeding program of good hays and grains. They may be needed for special cases or under vet recommendations. Older horses may benefit from joint supplements for arthritis. Hoof supplements are also useful, but not usually necessary for minis! I do feed a couple supplements for improved coat and condition, so here they are for good measure:
Missing Link: This supplement is manufactured for better coats and condition. It is primarily rice bran, flax seed, and black oil sunflower seeds, which can be purchased individually for cheaper. For ease, you can feed Missing Link, which has everything in one. Here is how to feed the other items separately...
Rice bran: You can purchase rice bran in a stabilized form to prevent spoilage. Rice is one of the easiest to digest grains, and this bran is very high in fat for energy and good coats. It can make your horses hot, so be careful when feeding.
Black oil sunflower seeds: A relatively "new" supplement or grain for horse people... these small seeds are referred to as "BOSS" and are not the regular Greystripe sunflower seeds that you find at the baseball park! They are normally fed to wild birds. They do not need to be processed... a horse can eat a handful of the whole seeds, and the high fat and oils are reputed to make the horse's coats shiny. It is also suggested they make black horses blacker, but I think that is an unproved rumor.
Flax seed: Similar to BOSS, these look like small red sesame seeds. If fed whole, they are difficult to digest, but the shells get gooey in water and act a lot like psyllium, which helps pull sand out of the gut. Flax seeds can be ground to release their nutrient qualities, but should either be fed immediately upon grounding or refrigerated, as they spoil easily and become rancid.
Psyllium: Not a true supplement I feel, but a preventative medicine... psyllium is the fibrous husk that becomes sticky in water. It can be purchased in pelleted forms to make it more palatable. If your horse eats anywhere near dirt or sand, the sand it ingests can collect in the stomach and cause sand colic. This is common in minis, who are known for eating every little scrap off of the ground! I feed my minis the recommended dose of a psyllium product for the first seven days of every month.
Andrea Rollins (c)2003
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Post by ghostrider on Feb 19, 2012 0:46:13 GMT -5
I wonder if it's the high corn content? corn in dogs, people etc.. does not digest well so maybe older horses have trouble with it? I do know that the high corn means high starch which is not good for many horses such as I.R or a horse with cushings problems.
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dani
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Posts: 48
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Post by dani on Feb 19, 2012 13:36:27 GMT -5
I wondered about too when we had that poor foundered pony from next door. But I read feed sacks until my eyes crossed and talked to both of my vets and we agreed the starch/sugar content of the Strategy was about as good as it gets for her. Nobody said anything about the corn. I don't have a sack in the house and I'm not going out in the monsoon right now. I'll have to look when I go out to feed this evening. And I beg to differ with that lady on it making them "hot". If this is Barney "hot", I'd hate to see him "cold". He's half asleep right now. I can see him laying in his shavings in his barn from my bedroom window. He turns tail and runs inside at the first raindrop, even though he has his waterproof turn out on. He thinks he'll melt.
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Post by ghostrider on Feb 20, 2012 23:44:22 GMT -5
Buddy and Boomer never got "hot" no matter what I fed them either but with Boomer getting anywhere from 30-50% alfalfa with his grass hay, he had to be put on Safe Choice because he would get stocked up from too much alfalfa and starchy grain.
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Post by Speckles on Feb 22, 2012 9:58:51 GMT -5
I don't have any experience with it, but Maeve (remember her, from way back on the original board) gave it to her Arabian mare. She was on the verge of selling her because she had become hot and sort of crazy. She stopped switched from the Stategy and the mare was back to her good old self.
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dani
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Posts: 48
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Post by dani on Feb 22, 2012 13:27:28 GMT -5
This mare has been on Patriot 14% so I got a sack of it until I decide which way to go. I read where Patriot was basically a lower priced Strategy, but it was only $1.50 less. The pellets are smaller. Barney gets 4 lbs of Strategy daily, with free choice coastal, and 1200 pounders on Patriot should have 6 lbs daily of it. Farrier suggested Equine Sr for both, but I'm not sure they need prime rib. It would be 8 lbs daily and it's $3 a sack more than Strategy. And some fool who forgot I work for a living suggested Ultium at $40 a sack. Right. I'll just go get a truck load of those- after I rob a bank.
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Post by ghostrider on Feb 23, 2012 0:28:27 GMT -5
There's grain out there at $40 a bag? does it weigh 100lbs? LOL
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Post by MaryS on Feb 23, 2012 13:49:47 GMT -5
I think the Ultium is a regular 50 lb bag. When strategy was running 8.99, Ultium was nearly $20 a bag back then. They say you feed fraction of what you would feed with regular feeds due to highly concentrated ingredients. I did some research and 3 equine nutritionalists say it is bad for older horses, it requires the liver to function at 3x the normal rate to process and utilize those ingredients. If your horse has liver problems, it could kill them. From what they said, I wouldn't be surprised if they would research horses being fed nothing but Ultium and see if it will cause decreased life span and/or negatively affect the liver. Basically, we can cause liver scerosis from alcohol, I wouldn't be surprised if Ultium does that to horses fed over its lifetime to a few years based on the amount you feed them.
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Post by vsolubo on Feb 26, 2012 10:41:07 GMT -5
Maeve's mare got hot from the feed through fly control they were feeding; not the horse feed. They discovered the fly control had a poision that was effecting the mare's temperment. Once she stopped feeding that the mare calmed down. I fed Strategy for years & never found it to make a horse hot, but I only feed as a treat, not as a daily meal.
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Post by Speckles on Feb 27, 2012 12:34:31 GMT -5
Sorry, I thought it was also Strategy.
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dani
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Post by dani on Feb 29, 2012 1:38:10 GMT -5
I think this all goes back to some horses that died down here several years ago. They first thought it was Strategy then testing at A & M showed it wasn't the feed, it was something they had put in with the feed as a mold deterrent in bulk storage. I think I'm probably going to keep Barney on it. He has done beautifully for the 7 years I've had him and that's what former owners were feeding as well. I'm going to go with "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.". I haven't decided yet whether to change Belle or just feed them two different feeds.
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dani
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Posts: 48
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Post by dani on Mar 29, 2012 4:33:59 GMT -5
I left the new mare on her old feed for a month rather than change everything on her at once - feed, home, companions, owners- a lot at one time. I do not like this Patriot feed she is on. It has way too much sugar/ molasses for my preference. I had to change farriers again and the new one was telling me about a fairly new feed she is using called Thrive. It is pelleted and the only ingredients are alfalfa, timothy grass, soy meal, rice bran, grain sorghum and norweigian kelp. The kelp is where all the minerals in it come from. Has anybody heard of this or fed this? She seemed to think it's great.
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Post by MaryS on Mar 29, 2012 7:20:39 GMT -5
This is from a friend of a friend: she had sent in a sample for an analysis because the bag lacks anything descriptive, and it came back loaded with starches and just not really how it was described. Oh and I also was involved in a discussion with the creator and numerous others on a Facebook page. He never answered questions posed by an equine nutritionist or anyone else. All he would answer is feed it and the results speak for themselves. The question the equine nutritionist asked was more of a praise type question: you seem to have created a hay in a bag, the best thing for a horse, but how do you keep the consistency of the hay to where it is nearly the same each bag (hay has.such a broad analysis from field to field and also the.way it is cut). It was sad really and I won't feed it when the creator won't even answer a simple question. It's also expensive, around 20 a bag.
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