|
Post by cyndi on Oct 20, 2013 13:04:27 GMT -5
Rather than asking this in the Chicken Coop, I thought I would start a new thread here, so that it's easy to find What are some things you do on the ground and in the saddle to help build your horse's trust in you? Being a strong leader has never been my strength, mostly because I was unsure of whether or not I was doing the "right" thing. Trainers often differ as to whether or not you should "force" a horse to do something, or go somewhere it's not sure about, or if you should use the approach and retreat method. I have always been unsure of what I should do. Part of that should come with knowing my horse, and finding which method works best with her...but sometimes when I would try something, someone would tell me I shouldn't be doing it that way, etc.. Just a lot of confusion on my part. Having said that...and risking getting a dozen different opinions, I am looking for ideas on how other people develop trust in their horse(s). Do you do a lot of round pen work? I don't have a round pen, so I would have to use a lunge line or else the entire arena. Do you set up 'obstacles' and 'scary' things to walk your horse around and investigate? What about mounted activities? Do you go over what you did on the ground? I think those are pretty safe questions, as I'm not specifically asking whether you use approach and retreat, etc., but feel free to tell me what you do. The reason I ask is that when my mare is in her comfort zone she is nice and soft and attentive to rein and leg cues, but if she is anxious, she wants to go where she wants to go and that's all there is to it. I have chosen to use a bitless bridle, but I am getting a bit of pressure from the barn owner to use a bit, for more "control". In my humble opinion, it shouldn't matter whether or not I'm using a bit - a horse will "fight" with you in those moments, no matter what you're using...and I don't think that cranking on a bit just to get "control" is the answer. It may stop the horse, but then so does my bitless bridle. It all comes down to whether or not she trusts me and is willing to listen to me when I am on her and she is anxious. I may have addressed this in another thread, but I figured that if I have a thread specifically about trust, it will be easier to access later. What do you do when you are training a young horse? What steps do you take to earn its trust when you take those first few rides where everything is new to them? My mare is not a youngster anymore, but it appears that I need to take a few steps back and start from the beginning in many ways. Looking forward to your feedback!
|
|
|
Post by luvmymorgan on Oct 20, 2013 15:23:36 GMT -5
I do a fair amount of backing with Risty. Both on the ground & mounted. He backs into & out of his pen and grooming stalls(ground work). We also back into & out of the arena(mounted) I've done quite a bit of free lunging in the RP. We've played with a tarp and walked over obstacles. It's taken time, but I think he trusts me. I'll discuss it more in the "coop", but might have found part of the reason for his cantering issue. (Nothing to do with trust:) )
|
|
|
Post by ghostrider on Oct 20, 2013 18:08:48 GMT -5
Taking into account Boomer had almost 0 interaction with humans, Chipawa, Frisco and Skeeter had between 30 days and 60 days and Buddy had 5 years human interaction before being sold to me all our bonding and trust issues varried.
Boomer bonded pretty close and after the first month when he spooked he'd jump into me and knock me over.
Frisco and Chipawa would spook away then look for me .
Buddy was the least trusting because he already had issues when I got him. He was also a long time trusting me and trusting me totally. He trusted me to feed him, or to ride him in fair weather but all trust went out the window at any sign of monsters (boulders, stumps, birds, plastic bags etc..)or windy weather when he could smell things but couldn't place them.
Boomer had to be gentled before we hit the RP and we had less then 0 trust. So early days it was a lot of just hanging and sacking him out from afar. I welcomed the kids to come and sit on the rail and watch Boomer or try and get him to eat hay from their hands. From the outside of the fencing. I had a lot of other friends who would come down and just hang out and visit so he was getting used to lots of people, lots of movements, kids running, horses riding by. His corral was only 16x80 with a 12x12 stall. Took awhile to get him to enter the stall and then we started opening the window and feeding him in the manger so he had to trust us by coming in the stall. It was one small trust lesson after another which built upon a relationship.
From there we started hand walking in the park and he had to trust me around the outhouses, the BBQ pits, the bicycles, 4 wheelers. Funny thing is he trusted me to save him, he jumped into me and knocked me down twice!
Then we started RP-ing for 20-30 min twice a day and worked on My Space/Your Space...a new concept for him because by then Matt was spoiling him so bad he started getting in our face for treats and nipping. No more hand feeding. But this is where we started lessons on trust and respect. Sometimes they trust you but they do not respect you. Horses can be very self centered. LOL
It's hard just to tell you what one or two things you can do because it's all a lot of little things that build the trust. Everything between supplying their needs, just hanging out like part of the herd and taking control when imagined monsters lurk.
|
|
|
Post by MaryS on Oct 21, 2013 0:58:00 GMT -5
Every interaction builds trust. If you're not building trust, you're causing apprehension.
I start with disengaging the hindquarters. I can do this at liberty, on halter, and in saddle. I can stop a bolt, buck, pull, drag, movement with a disengage. That becomes helpful in all my future interactions.
After disengaging, I teach movement. I can drive the horse where I want. I stop with a disengage. Later on, I won't need to disengage to stop, but that is down the road a ways.
After these are solid, I add obstacles, speed, scary things, distractions, etc. I start with something that won't cause my horse to panic or hit the point where I'll lose control. If I lose control, trust is broken - the horse decided I'm not reliable to keep it safe. You take several steps back before you can go forward again. First I add some speed, trot and then canter. Next, I put a stationary object that will not move in my training session, a heavy mounting block, a bale of hay, etc and do it at walk, trot, canter - it's not a direct interaction, it's just there in the area I work where it wasn't before. After numerous stationary objects, I add moving ones (but no touching yet), obstacles that require interaction (step over logs, tarps, plywood, rug, platform, concrete step, etc). Then, I add objects that will touch but I'm causing the touch (plastic bag on dressage whip end, flag, banner, pool noodle, etc). I don't actually sack our these objects first, I like to work towards the spook in place response (freeze if scared) before I deal with sacking out (this object is not to be feared).
The more interactions where you keep control, the more your relationship moves to trust. Things that 'attack' can only happen after hundreds of successful repetitions with 'dead' things. An 'attack' is where something comes from nowhere and touches the horse. This usually results in the biggest fear response, so I don't do that without 100% confidence we'll 'survive'.
|
|
|
Post by vsolubo on Oct 21, 2013 12:47:35 GMT -5
The approach and retreat method only works if you retreat before the horse reacts. If you wait until the horse is showing any fear or has started to act up; you've waited too late, then you may have to force them. So if you know exactly where your horse reacts, you retreat before you get to that place; if you waited for them to raise their head or look in that direction, retreating is only going to reinforce their fear.
Even though the few times I was able to use a rp I did enjoy it; it think lunging is way more beneficial (if it is done right). You are able to move the horse much farther (if you lunge in a circle you're doing it wrong), you can move them over objects (tree limbs, creeks...), up/down hills... & you are moving them there; not leading them. To give a horse confidence they need to learn that they can lead as well as follow.
|
|
|
Post by ghostrider on Oct 21, 2013 20:01:56 GMT -5
Buddy is Boomer's total opposite. He was green, passive aggressive, lazy, spooky, slow and a powerhouse all wrapped up in a pretty package. LOL
With Buddy I find the best method is the old and proven WET SADDLEBLANKET method! And the other lesson is ask but don't back down and if you don't get a yes then increase the pressure but keep asking, don't force.
When I started RP-ing he was lazy and hated to work. We kept it at 20-30 min lessons and worked on walk, trot, canter, inside and outside turns and I taught him voice commands. I would say with Boomer this built trust but with Buddy it basically worked on pecking order between the two of us.
Same lessons with different results. With Buddy it was forcing him to move or not move when "I" said. With Boomer it was showing him I could make him move and I wasn't hurting him and when he was a good boy (always end on a good note) he got loved on and fed.
With Buddy I could feel him giving over his stubborn "I don't have to listen to you!" attitude and then we'd end on a good note. Boomer wanted to belong to someone and was curious about us even though he was afraid when we adopted him. He just needed to trust us.
Buddy had already made up his mind, he'd been owned by someone and wasn't going down that road again. I think half his spooks were attempts to get out of riding. Or the way he got out of being ridden before I bought him. But the other half were the wild eye, high head with 1800 lbs of raw tnt waiting to explode.
He bucked and reared and spooked sideways and belly flopped and it was every single ride and always more than once or twice. And usually when I'd push him past his comfort. And then he'd try and turn back to the barn and we'd spend time rearing and fighting for control over who's the boss. I never let him win and I reinforced who the boss was in the RP again and again. Patience and Persistance and lots of wet saddle blankets. Sometimes trust doesn't come until you get their respect.. Every ride he survived put him on the road to trust but not backing down and giving in to his tirades gained his respect.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 10:29:08 GMT -5
For me...I have to spend lots of time just grooming and bonding. Also...I make sure that the horse does not enter my space unless invited. I like to practice on a long lead line, making the horse stand wherever I say, while I walk around. It takes patience, but helps to define the role of me as herd boss.
Under saddle, I like to do serpentine's at the walk and jog. Leg yields, etc. Something really fun and confidence building is to sit deep in the saddle, and look at where you want to go. Don't give any rein or leg cues, just look. Of course you have to cue to move forward, but after that just look where you want to go. At first the horse might not get it, but eventually they do.
|
|
|
Post by cyndi on Oct 23, 2013 18:12:11 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the wonderful responses!!
|
|