Why John Lyons training?

[ghostrider]

Forgot to say, Fanny is gorgeous did you already say what breed she is?

[Deleted]

I've never bought a saddle this way. That would be much easier! I just bring them home and fit them. I actually think fitting an english saddle is TONS easier. Once I found a good western that seemed to fit just about everything, it was hard to let it go! Making my saddle change this past year was really a pain, but now that I've got a good one I hope to just stick with it. ;-) I don't like it as much as my old saddle, but that one did not come in my seat size. This one is much more close contact, though, and I do like that.

Cyndi...when we first got back into horses, ( I had them as a kid), we just used this saddle that was my husband's grandfather's. My little horse would get ornery when I saddled her up, and spooky when I rode her. The neighbor came over to help me, and immediately told me I needed a different saddle. This one was an antique...probably from late 1800's, early 1900's. It has a 5.5" gullet! I was pinching the heck out of my horse. I had no idea. Now that saddle is in my family room on display. ;-)

[cyndi]

I think the only saddle fitters around me are English...and I sure would prefer Western. However, I've only ever ridden in an English saddle once, and that was when I rode Fanny for the very first time, before I bought her. She'd had less than ten rides on her back then. I didn't feel terribly secure in the saddle, even though she was well behaved. I like the security of a good sized pommel and cantle. ;D

I've got my top three saddle choices picked, and I know I can get demos, so now all I do is watch the calendar until the weather warms up in spring.

Part of my reason for wanting treeless is the weight. I've had back issues in the past (thankfully, I've been really good for the past year or so!!), so I don't think my lower back could handle swinging a 30 pound saddle up onto Fanny's back...even if she is just 14.2 hands.

Thank you for your kind words about Fanny. She is half Canadian Horse and half Newfoundland Pony. She is so lovely, I'd love to just be able to ride her. I have very few photos of me on her, partly because I'm usually alone when I get on her, and partly because I don't really ride her much. I sure hope to change that in the future, with a well-suited saddle for both of us.

[ghostrider]

I've never heard of a Canadian horse breed. I love the pic of her with her head up in the air she looks so regal.

nana, both Tucker and Colorado worked with me over the internet and phone. They determined by the pics and measurments sent in what size tree he needed. With Colorado I had to wait for them to build the saddle on the tree but with Tucker they told me what size to buy and I went shopping.

[cyndi]

Both the Canadian Horse and the Newfoundland Pony have quite a heritage.

The Canadian Horse came from horses that were brought over by Henry XIV back in the 1660s. Here's a bit of a history of them...

www.cherrycreekcanadians.ca/history.htm

[ghostrider]

That's a fascinating history on her and she definitely looks her heritage too. I wonder if the Canadian horse is mixed with the mustangs too.

It's interesting that although a lot of the horses were bred and brought to America from the Caribbean they originated in Mexico. Early on the indian slaves were not allowed to own them but learned horsemanship from breeding and working with them. Later the Pueblo Indians acquired horses from the Spanish, allowing the further spread of horses to the Plains tribes.

Boomer looks much like a barb/arab and is the same size as well. Also fascinating is that horses actually originated in North America and then disappeared before being re-introduced to America.

According to the BLM the blood of the WY mustang is predominately
Arab
Standard bred
Thoroughbred
Fresian
and Barb
I think there's something else in there too? but in some of the herds you can see Percheron and even Belgian. Believed to have come from the early settlers who turned them loose upon uprooting and moving on or the indian attacks.

In the herds Buddy comes from (Little fish lake Nevada) there is definitely Percheron.

[Deleted]

wow! She looks so much like the pictures of her ancestors. Amazing. I had never heard of the breed before. she's beautiful.

Denise...I have to agree on your theory of Buddy coming from a Perch herd. LOL

[ghostrider]

Yeah he fits in here amongst the Amish Percheron crosses.

[cyndi]

Our Cranial/Sacral therapist was out yesterday, and she brought her saddle pad along, to try with my saddle. It was a better fit for Fanny without a rider, so I got on. It was still good!!

Because we were in a small courtyard, our therapist asked if there was anywhere else I could ride so that she could assess how Fanny was moving with the saddle. The only other place to go is on the road, so that's where we went. The only time I've ever ridden Fanny on the road was to get to the hayfield on the other side of the house. With our therapist walking beside us, we headed out, and went further than we've ever gone!!! ;D I was thrilled! Just having someone there with me was such a huge boost for my confidence, and Fanny was great - carried her head nice and low and relaxed. As long as the weather cooperates, our therapist is willing to do this again and again while she works on the two of us. Just had to share my little milestone. Doesn't seem like much to you experienced riders, I'm sure, but it was a major event for Fanny and me.

I STILL don't have my John Lyons books that I asked for!!! Maybe my husband is waiting until Christmas to give them to me I've also added John's "Trail Series" DVD set to my wish list, since it is on such a good sale right now.

I recently watched a video clip from the Trail Series set where John is turning a horse in the round pen, and I've seen clips of Josh doing the same thing. They talk about the inside and outside turns. How do you know when to turn a horse to the inside and when it's appropriate to turn a horse to the outside? Will I learn more about that when I finally get John's book ("JL on Horses" is the first book on my list)?

[Deleted]

Cyndi...I think that's a milestone!!! Good for you and Fanny! Your therapist is sweet to help you. Will you just get a pad like hers, or will you still need a new saddle?

[cyndi]

Nana, I was absolutely tickled. What a difference it made to feel secure in the saddle, without the saddle slipping!! And, of course, having someone walking beside me was a boost Baby steps, but at least I feel like I'm moving forward.

Fernanda, my Cranial/Sacral therapist, doesn't claim to be a saddle fitter, but all I can go by is what she feels when she puts her hands on Fanny. The pad had big shoulder shims (I believe the pad is actually designed for wither relief - it was also a cut back which I really liked!) which spread the saddle out over her shoulders - thankfully it's a treeless saddle so that it can spread out. I went to the tack store where she bought her pad, but they didn't have any. I suppose I could order one in, but I got to looking online and found some others that might work, too.

I've been doing some research on pads, looking for something that I can put shims in now, and then have the option to take out later, once she muscles up from more exercise. After looking at websites and watching some videos, it looks more to me like she has a lack of muscle behind her shoulder (and knowing how little exercise she gets, it makes perfect sense), so the saddle is pulling down in that area because of the cinch, thus putting pressure on the shoulder. But I'm not a saddle fitter either.

I did look at the CSI pads yesterday, and that is what really made me think that lack of muscle plays a big part in our problem. They have that video where the lady places shims behind the shoulder, and it made sense to me. But that is a lot of money to spend on something that "might" work. I plan to demo a Gaucho saddle, and those don't require a thick pad. All you have to use with them is a thin blanket, so that's why I'd like a pad that has removable inserts.

So, to answer your question (after this long-winded speech), I'm still planning to buy a different saddle, so I don't know if I should bother with spending money on a pad that I may not use once I get a new saddle. Perhaps my barn owner has a pad that might work that I can borrow.

[ghostrider]

What is a Cranial/Sacral therapist? I know cranial is the brain so is she a behaviorist?
Good for you and Fanny sounds like a good day all around.

As for pads, could you find a used one on EBAY for now? or buy one with the neoprene backing? I bought a really nice new one here for $35 on sale.

[cyndi]

Here is a link for Cranial/Sacral therapy...

www.cranialtherapy.ca/index.php/about/articles

No, my therapist isn't a behaviourist. I think having "cranial" in there is more to do with the doctor who discovered the therapy, and how he found slight motion in the cranial sutures...or something like that. I don't know, I just enjoy it ;D

I am checking out websites for a saddle pad. I'd like to try neoprene, for the anti-slip properties. Fanny usually objects to fleece on her back, but she didn't with Fernanda's pad on. Not sure if it was because it was broken in already. I don't think Fanny likes the poofiness of thick new fleece.

It's amazing what you learn when you are kind of forced to learn something!! I am learning more and more about back conformation and the importance of a good pad. Wish I could afford the CSI pad I found this morning. But even if I could afford it, would I use it again with my new saddle? I don't want to throw my money away.

I may even try getting a set of 'wither risers'. They are shims that are connected to each other and you set them between the pad and saddle. That might be all I need to just raise up the front of the saddle a bit (behind her shoulders), and get that pressure off her shoulders.

Here's another thought...I use a "Y" rigging. I have the latigos starting at the front D ring. Do you suppose that if I start the latigos on the rear D ring I would be able to not tighten the cinch as much in the front, which would alleviate some of the pressure on the front D rings, and thus her shoulders? I might still have to deal with saddle slippage, though. Either way, I think I at least need shims to balance out the lack of muscle behind her shoulders.

[ghostrider]

Not sure why your saddle or a pad would inhibit the shoulder when the saddle does not sit on or above the shoulder. The saddle should be on her back and behind the shoulder by 2-3 fingers width. No matter how much you raise the saddle in the front or how tight you tighten the cinch it's only going to apply pressure to the front of her barrel. Unless you are putting your saddle too far forward?

[Deleted]

Denise...even when the saddle is in the proper location, you can impede or pinch the scapula. If you saddle your horse, and find the scapula, then put your hand under the saddle and lift your horses leg forward, you will see how far back the scapula moves when the horse is in motion. It's not just about placement on a stationary horse. Try it! It's quite amazing! you can just try it on an unsaddled horse and see how far back the scapula moves.

Cyndi...the thing that sold me on spending so much money on the pad was that every used one I tracked sold for as much as I paid for mine. ( I got a demo pad, that looks new, but was used twice. I paid $300) And...you get a 30-day money back guarantee.

I just sold my 5 Star pads for just under what I paid for them, and we rode in them for 8 years. I don't have any hesitation now buying a good pad. I think it's as important as the saddle.

Cyndi...I haven't checked...do the Csi pads work with a treeless saddle? If so...you could try it, and if you don't like it, just send it back. ;-) The people there are sooooo nice!