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Post by ghostrider on Dec 6, 2012 23:10:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 9:15:32 GMT -5
I'll have to go check it out. It's the scapula I'm feeling. I would have to put the saddle waaaay back not to have the edge of scapula affected. I don't get that at all. Makes zero sense to me. ;-)
I don't mean it sits on top of it. I mean it will rotate back and hit. Also...with the CSI pad, I can put my hand under the bars of the cinched up saddle, and the saddle fits my horse. It reminds me of a english saddle riser pad. We've been using one of those for years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 9:19:42 GMT -5
I looked, at the page, and yes, that's correct. But when the horse is in motion, the scapula moves back. the Csi pad has these fingers that move with that, so that it doesn't inhibit motion.
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Post by ghostrider on Dec 7, 2012 12:25:12 GMT -5
I'm wondering if it's a gaited thing? with the gaited horse they move their front legs differently, therefore a lot more motion of the shoulders? Or maybe I've never noticed the scapula moving back that far? I'll have to look next time someone is with me and I can move beside their horse.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 17:07:24 GMT -5
My horses aren't gaited. You can just lift your horses leg, and pull it forward. Keep one hand on the scapula. It's amazing how far it moves!!!
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Post by ghostrider on Dec 10, 2012 2:02:41 GMT -5
I'll try that and I'll try it with the saddle on to see if it changes what I thought on saddle fitting. If the experts say to keep two/three fingers width between shoulder and tree to keep the saddle from impairing movement seems like having the scapula moving into the saddle then shouldn't matter or they're wrong? Gonna snow tomorrow for the first time this winter, it was only 55' today. May be a week before I get to ride again.
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Post by MaryS on Dec 17, 2012 13:22:40 GMT -5
How do you know when to turn a horse to the inside and when it's appropriate to turn a horse to the outside? Will I learn more about that when I finally get John's book? I think John briefly discusses round penning or there is a chapter on how to do it in Lyons on Horses. You don't turn a horse to the inside until they turn to the outside well. The inside is inviting them to come towards you and finish a turn. It also begins your bonding of come to me. After they get good at both outside and inside turns, you can alternate as you wish. You just don't want to confuse you both in the beginning by trying to do both inside and outside turns together. Your body position and the horse's body position will dictate what kind of turn you get. For example, if your horse's nose is tilted to the outside of the pen, you're most likely going to get an outside turn. Why, because the horse is already pointing that way. Another example, if you are looking for an inside turn, but cut the horse off, they will most likely slam the brakes and turn outside. Why, because they don't want to hit you and instinct says turn and run (they take the fastest way out).
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Post by tripledeuce on Dec 17, 2012 15:37:12 GMT -5
With gentle horses, I begin with inside turns. With wild horses, or aggressive horses, I begin with outside turns. Many times, if a horse learns outside turns first , It MAY be harder to teach inside turns. However, John has no hard and fast rule about it, that "I" know of, and he now starts most halter trained horses under bridle, befor round penning.
When do you change? When your horse will turn when you extend your arm to signal the turn, 100% of the time, your ready to change to "the Other side", Say your horse is going counter clockwise. When you extend your LEFT arm, the horse should turn. When going clockwise, extend your right arm. My horses learn that when I lean forward, towards them, I want an outside turn, when I lean back, I want an inside turn. When I get a good inside turn, and the horse looks like he may stop, I say "whoa" and step forward, and make him stop. Thus, I teach both "whoa: and stop and face me at the same time Respectfully Terry.
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Post by MaryS on Dec 17, 2012 21:18:24 GMT -5
I just Pulled out my Lyons on horses, and it's chapter 2 for round penning. Also, Terry is correct, there is no rule on turns; not sure where I got that in my head. Maybe I haven't seen anyone do inside turns first and assumed it was the rule.
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Post by cyndi on Dec 23, 2012 16:04:32 GMT -5
Thank you Mary and Terry for your comments!
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Post by ghostrider on Dec 23, 2012 23:45:47 GMT -5
I've heard many people say to teach an outside turn first. It stuck because I always thought it seemed backwards. If a wild horse turns to the outside he has access to kick at you. I always thought it would be much safer to invite the head in not the butt. I do teach an outside turn first though, have no real reason for it other than they seem to pick it up faster.
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Post by cyndi on Dec 29, 2012 16:14:30 GMT -5
Well, I didn't get my John Lyons book or videos for Christmas, but I did order the Trail Riding DVD set today, while it's still on sale Can hardly wait to watch them!!!!!!!
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Post by tripledeuce on Dec 29, 2012 16:35:03 GMT -5
The reason "I" teach the outside turn, is because if you let a wild horse turn in He just MIGHT run over you!! I'v seen it almost happen. Terry
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Post by Speckles on Jan 4, 2013 18:56:52 GMT -5
I audited some training with a JL Certified trainer a number of years ago. What I remember her saying is that it is easier to get outside turns. A few people had problems getting inside turns because they weren't able to be in the right place at the right time to get the inside turn. Unfortunately I don't remember the trick. I've never been able to round pen Specks.
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Post by ghostrider on Jan 5, 2013 21:11:25 GMT -5
I don't have the trail riding series, let me know how good they are. I do have the old VHS tapes though and love to watch them. Have them loaned out at the moment.
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